Wealth Redistribution, By Any Other Name, Is Still Slavery, by C. Jeffery Small

It's not that your arguments sail over anybody's heads it's simply that we don't agree with your conclusions.

No actually I was a Libertarian when I was young and over time figured out why it cannot work in a country that has no frontier.

Have fun in Somalia.

Which anyone that has even a high school politics class level of understanding of libertarianism would know is completely different than libertarianism.

I call bull@!$%# that he was ever a libertarian....as he doesnt have the slightest clue as to what libertarianism is.

goodness.....who do these people think they are trying to kid????

I call bull@!$%# that he was ever a libertarian

You are woefully mistaken. When I first became politically aware I was very intrigued by the ideals of small government that is central to the Libertarian Platform. As I got older though I realized that for many Libertarians their real goal was to use State Powers or "individual freedoms" in an end run around constitutional protections. I also came to the realization that government was not the sole vessel capable of tyranny. Industry was just as capable of oppression as government. I also came to the realization that we all owe our success to each other. No one is an island of self dependence. I had taken advantage of the military education our tax dollars bought and then later took advantage of the Pell Grants and student loans that our tax dollars bought to get my college degree. I went in the service in '84 which was after the first GI Bill expired and before the new one was passed so our college benefit at that time was pretty lame.

so you think walmart can put you in prison or send you to war?? really??

wow....

government is the only tool of force ever....and that will be ever.

in regards to owing our success to each other....I agree.....and what made us great up until the 60's was that we did so voluntarily...not by force.

now we have become a society that expects someone else to take care of us through the force of government...and if they do not like it..they can go to prison....

big difference...and your lack of ability to understand the difference is what leads me to believe that you were never a libertarian...as you truly do not understand the platform...you have the main points down...as does anyone who can read...but its implementation is were you fall...which shows you have never truly believed or understood the philosophy.

so you think walmart can put you in prison or send you to war?? really??

Yes actually. Walmart puts it's employees in an economic prison. I've seen libertarians supporting the right of an employer firing an employee for their political beliefs. Another form of mental imprisonment. Lobbyists encourage policy decisions that lead to war all the time to protect their interests.

and what made us great up until the 60's was that we did so voluntarily

No we didn't. America was an awesome place in the '50s if your were a white middle class male. It sucked for everyone else. The problem with big government isn't that it's big government but that we have given money the biggest spot at the table.

Lobbyists encourage policy decisions that lead to war all the time to protect their interests.

But that has to go through government to work. If government has no power, it doesn't matter what the lobbyists say or do. Without government to back them up, no company has the ability to initiate force.

A government with no power cannot protect the interests of the citizenry as a whole. If the lobbyists can't throw around money then the lobbyists have no power.

Not true. It is quite possible to succeed on your own.

Really? Not going to use the transportation infrastructure that we all built to transport goods? Not going to use the communication infrastructure that we all built to sell those goods? Not going to use the research we all paid for to create/invent those goods? Not going to use the medical research we all paid for to ensure your health? Not going to drink the clean water we all paid to clean? Not going to call the police or fire department we all paid for? Not go to the schools we all paid for? Not going to enjoy the domestic stability we have all paid for by creating the safety nets? Good luck with that. We create society to tackle the problems that are too big for us to handle ourselves. We pay for that problem resolution through taxation.

people manufacture rights out of thin air, then call them Constitutional

Looks like you need a ninth amendment refresher.

And here you not only admit to feeding at the public trough, you act pissy because you didn't get enough

Actually what you deem to be acting pissy was merely an attempt to explain why I had to take out Pell Grants and student loans instead of being able to rely on a GI bill that didn't exist. My "feeding" at the public trough as you put it allowed me to prepare for a career where I could be of greater benefit to the society that paid for it. It allowed me to go from running a crane for roughly 14k/year in a small conservative rural city in the early 90's to writing software for 70kish/year today.

kragg

seems to me that walmart didnt come to my door and force me to work against my will...and imprison me if I didnt go along with it.....again..your lack of understanding of freedom and rights points that you do not understand freedom and liberty and were never a libertarian.

if it wasnt for the government inflating prices...and intrusion into our educatioin system...you wouldnt of needed to take out loans and whatnot to go to college.

again...you complete lack of understanding of how the system works shows that you were never a liberrtarian and instead more than likely a liberal your entire life.

government created the waste that we have to dredge through..that requires us to go into debt....the inflation and devaluation of our currency....how you cannot put this togetther when talking about your education......is just amazing to me since EVERY libertarian I know understand the link between the devaluation of our dollar...inflation and government.

but then....you are an educated ex libertarian....lmao.

seems to me that walmart didnt come to my door and force me to work against my will...and imprison me if I didnt go along with it.

No Walmart came along and took the lack of economic opportunity in your area and low balled all it's employees. Making them work just shy of full time so they don't have to pay full time benefits. And I quite honestly laugh at your suggestion that if not for government intrusion I wouldn't have had to take out loans to pay for my education. Did you try to raise a family of four kids and go to school on 7 dollars an hour in the early 90's? You see I've had to walk a mile in the shoes of the poor and I'll be damned if I'm going to abandon them to the right.

making them work???? really????

lmao

hyperbole much.....ex libertarian????

making them work??? lol...you are hilarious man.

the gigs up you are not fooling anyone.

That whole move if you don't like your working conditions flat just doesn't work for everyone. When you're poor you work where you can. The libertarian utopia you all would like to saddle us with existed once and we found that business absolutely cannot regulate itself. That's how unions came into power and created the middle class. It's also how these laws came into existence. I'll not change your minds and know full well the futility of that. All I can do is hope conservatives come around some day and run reasonable candidates that are not wedded to religious intolerance.

lets not forget Neale...that the all wise government....to keep us safe has put so many regulations in place that give the corporations money...example: I dont have an education.....wanted to run a taxi service...but regulations have made it to where it costs 50k to get the license......gee I wonder who that benefits??

here in Washington state.....we finally got the state out of the liquor business...but people....afraid that there would be a liquor store on each block....put in "regulations" which require you to have 10,000 sq ft.........gee....wonder who that benefits???

each thing that is put in place to "protect" us seems to always make the corporations the benefactor.

hmmmmmmmmm

people who actualy think that we can "plan" a society just slay me.

You will work at our store, and we will not pay you a decent wage, nor will we allow you to work full time, and you CANNOT go somewhere else to work!

You clearly have never lived in a town small enough or conservative enough to have been relatively free of a union's ability to create a living wage. If it's only a small number of businesses low balling employees it's one thing but how do you break that when you are poor and low wages are an institution in your geographic location?

BS, I know exactly what socialism is and Obama is not a socialist, no more than any president before him. So odd that though I heard a bit of moaning and groaning from a libertarian here and there they just seemed to put up and shut up for the most part during the republican years.

You mean to tell me that the reason no where in the entire WORLD there are any working libertarian government is because of some vast conspiracy to keep you guys down, surely you guys have been able to convince some of the "sheeple" of how fabulous a system this perfection will be. Apparently it will cure all woes, it will solve all problems, I can't imagine that political analysts worldwide haven't been converted and convinced someone to give it a go.

klm

I would agree with you.....he is not a socialist...he is a fascist pig.

Ron Paul and I are in agreement on this.

http://dailyreckoning.com/ron-paul-obamas-not-socialist-hes-corporatist/

and yes there is a conspiracy...those who want to control...vs those who dont.

we do not want to control others...yet others want to control everyone.

Fascist??? Really???

Fascists seek rejuvenation of their nation based on commitment to an organic national community where its individuals are united together as one people in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood through a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through discipline, indoctrination, physical education, and eugenics.

Fascism seeks to purify the nation of foreign influences that are deemed to be causing degeneration of the nation or of not fitting into the national culture.

Fascism promotes political violence and war, as forms of direct action that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality.

Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violence against opponents or to overthrow a political system.

Fascism opposes multiple ideologies: conservatism, liberalism, and two major forms of socialism—communism and social democracy.

Fascism claims to represent a synthesis of cohesive ideas previously divided between traditional political ideologies.

To achieve its goals, the fascist state purges forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.

Wasnt there a guy who bought an island and tried to do the Libertarian thing? Or is he still doing that? He's a billionaire though, so he will control the island... out of reach for us normal folks...

Pure Libertarianism sounds like anarchism to me. When I was young I used to think anarchism was awesome, just give me a gun and let me make my own way into the world... back when I thought nothing could hurt me or make me sick or take away my strength.

Now I know there are real monsters in the world and they arent made of teeth or scales... they are made of money...

Unregulated collection of money creates huge monsters... just look to the graft era (turn of the century) and machine politicis. To deregulate would allow those corrupt concentrations of money to return. We've already opened a door with Citizens United that is allowing this bully mechanism to replay in our political arena on a larger scale.

The real fight for freedom is in defining acceptable social structures and rules that allow people to reach success but not at the detriment of the entire society. We do not live in a vacuum.

If action speak louder than words, so far it seems that Pres Obama has ruled as an old school moderate Republican. Perhaps the point of view from the Right is caused by shift in perspective within our political spectrum. We have shifted so far to the right that there really isn't much of a Leftist point of view in main stream American politics. What is considered Left in our modern reality map is really moderate to slightly conservative.

I don't know about all this "entitlement" bull poopage that fills the air with screeching. I get the feeling that it is more about class than anything else. Both parities have a deep seated revulsion for the working class and poor. The Republicans just holler about it where the Dems are too PC to mention it. And I've gotta admit from a blue collar working class perspective the Dems tell much better lies. This election I'll have to stick with them. Sad but true.....

When there is such a vast divide in wealth, in my opinion, it is necessary to redistribute the wealth. How to do that is another bag o worms. As Lucy Parsons once spoke, "Never be deceived that the rich will permit you to vote away their wealth." Short of a revolution from the bottom up I think we might just be stuck in a New Age of Robber Barons.

Anyhow, best to all despite difference in opine, affiliation or affliction

Neale,

I'm amazed that you would actually vote for any politician running for President. I haven't voted for any candidate for that office since I started voting in 1972. I've always regarded them as actual or potential corrupt politicians and had no use whatsoever for any of them. I've always voted against their opponent as being an even worse choice. I have no particular liking for any of the four Republican candidates, including Congressman Paul (What will happen to him is exactly what happened to Wilson and will happen to any other idealist in that office. He will either become a corrupt politician or will be destroyed by them). That said, I will vote in their favor (not with any approval) because all of them are capable of passing the NBO test (Not Barack Obama), in the 2012 election. 2016 is another matter. In that year, someone will have to pass the NNG test, the NMR test, the NRS test or the NRP test.

neale

what did you think of the video?? to me its more about freedom/libertarianism than Ron Paul.

but that is my take on it.